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Cross-posted at DailyKos.
Don't believe the hype. The healthcare debate in the US is being jeopardized by right-wing extremists who yammer that universal health care is socialism.
Once again, they don't know what the hell they are talking about.
Universal health care is a hallmark of fiscal conservatism.
And the freest market economies of the world all have it.
This is a diary about my experience yesterday with healthcare in the most fiscally conservative, most capitalist place on the planet: Hong Kong.
Hong Kong, while technically rejoined with China since 1997, functions essentially as its own country with a high degree of autonomy, its own laws, taxes, governance, customs, and international borders — and healthcare system.
Hong Kong is ranked by the Economic Freedom Network, and the Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal as the number one most capitalist place in the world every single year since they began ranking. Anyone who has ever been there can tell you -- for fiscal conservatives, it is a near paradise.
My 97-year-old grandmother, who has lived in Hong Kong since '59, recently was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, and type II diabetes. It's my first visit to her since her diagnosis — it pained me to see her labored breathing, and her swollen feet. I accompanied her yesterday on her first trip to a government-run, geriatric day hospital.
We had a courtesy phone call from the hospital the day before, to remind her of the time of her appointment. We were offered a car pick up, which we declined as I was bringing her in.
There was no line as we walked in. The facility is old, but clean and the staff were friendly. There was some visible mildew high on the wall in one spot, but given the high humidity in HK this isn't surprising. There were plenty of chairs and tables, and lots of exercise 'machines' (simple rigs to move clamps, turn knobs, pull ropes, climb stairs and low obstacles, etc.,) There was ample antibiotic hand wash everywhere, and they handed out surgical masks for those who wanted them.
After an intake, we waited about 40 minutes in a pleasant open area in view of everyone else, and could watch their exercise.
The doctor was friendly, relaxed and attentive. We discussed medications - increased the diuretic, and added a heart therapy drug to replace one that gave her a rash.
She had blood drawn, and a test to check her electrolyte levels.
She had an EKG done.
She had a lung x-ray done to check for fluid in her lungs and look for other complications.
She saw two physical therapists, one who checked her mental acuity and advised how to break up her tasks so that she doesn't tire too much, and explained how her body is processing oxygen poorly so will need more time to do things. He emphasized that light activity was good for her, and could help her regain the mobility she had before her heart problems started.
They offered a hot lunch (white rice with lean chicken, leafy green vegetables, and fruit) that was free to all the elderly patients.
In the afternoon, the other therapist checked her for balance and strength, watched her walk up and down stairs, tested her use of a walker, and gave her some simple activities to do. The friendly doctor brought her new medication to us himself while Grandma was on what looked like a no-weight pullup machine. (She told me later the exercises were too easy.) When she tired her day was done.
Almost all the elderly who were there were unattended by family members. The hospital has a free, regular bus that comes around to pick people up and bring them home. The center was well-staffed, people were pleasant and mellow, it was clean and tidy without being too sterile -- fine for non-urgent palliative care.
I was shocked however, when I got the bill for the day.
Total cost, including free car pick up, check up, electrocardiogram, X-ray, bloodwork, two physical therapy sessions, medication — even lunch: 55 Hong Kong dollars, or about $7 USD.
Less than I paid for the cab ride over. Even if you adjust for cost of living, that is still really, really cheap. As it should be.
There is no comparison, by the way, with the healthcare that China is able (or rather, unable) to offer its people. If you don't have the money to pay for treatment, hospitals won't take you in. Medical bankruptcy is also a huge problem there as in the US. But even China has now committed to 90% coverage for basic universal healthcare by 2011, and 100% by 2020.
If this was really about capitalism, then would we look at Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Australia, which are all ranked as even more fiscally conservative than the US, and all have UHC, and see that there is no ideological barrier to having UHC. We might even say UHC is a hallmark of sound social policy in capitalist countries.
But we all know this isn't really about capitalism. Or socialism.
This is about crazy versus sane. This is about stupid Rethuglican power plays, and it is probably about racism too. But don't let any of that fool you, or distract you. Don't let the crazies get to you. We must stay focused.
We must get UHC and a strong public option done in this country. History and future generations of Americans will judge us by it.
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| User | Points |
|---|---|
| curtis | 1928 |
| ebeh | 1161 |
| Madhuri | 1145 |
| erinjerri | 1074 |
| spamfriedrice | 551 |
| oliveoil | 457 |
| Calvin Prashad | 358 |
| JennyG | 281 |
| jenn | 219 |
| chriswong | 155 |
We must do whatever we can to fight this creeping socialism into American society.
One of the most insidious forms of socialism is "insurance".
Every year I pay fire insurance, health insurance, car insurance. I am up to my eyeballs in socialistic insurance policies.
now, The insurance industry says that insurance is just a way to spread the risk.
But what it really is ...is socialism.
I've never had a house burn down but I've paid fire insurance for over 30 years. so I decided to call my insurance agent and confront him with the question "Where did all my money go?"
You know what he told me? He said they had already given it to some guy I didn't even know!!!
"Who did you give it to?"
"A guy whose house burned down He was smoking in bed. The whole place burned to the ground" was the reply.
"Why should I have to pay for someone who acting stupid. That's my money. I want it back."
"That's the way insurance works." My agent said. "We take money from those whose houses didn't burn down and give it to those who have had a fire. We take money from the young and healthy and use it to pay the old and sick. We are spreading the risk. We take money from those who don't need it and give it to those who do. "
That's socialism in a nutshell. Take from those that have and give to those who don't???
It's time we conservatives start speaking out against those hidden forms of socialism that have seeped into our society and threaten to infect every area of our lives.
Time to end risk pooling. Time for an end to insurance.
Oo I love stories!
Fast forward 20 years into a parallel universe.
Conservatives have won EVERYTHING.
John: "Oh my god, my neighbor's house is burning down!"
*Firemen arrive.
John: "Thank you for coming so soon. Thank god I've been paying my firefighting fees. Can you put out that fire?"
Fireman A: "No, sir. The owner's on-file credit card bounced. In addition, we can't get into contact with her. Her voice mail says she will be out of town."
John: "That's ridiculous. The fire will spread onto my house!"
Fireman A: "Don't worry, sir. We'll put it out as soon as it does. You should know, however, that we're charging you the second a fire truck is dispatched to your neighborhood."
John: "That's fine. How much is it again?"
Fireman A: "We charge $300 an hour."
John: "WHAT?!"
John's house survived with a quarter of the house burnt. The firefighting service cost a meager $1,200. Damages to the house cost $6,000.
John was out $7,200 to no fault of his own. He had just been laid off from work and could not figure out how to pay.
He sure wished he still had his socialized firefighters.
Hey Norris, I suggest you look at the genesis of the joint stock company at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_stock_company
You will find that early capitalism and indeed even current capitalism relies on risk pooling as a way to generate capital. Yes, Norris, corporations are a way to pool risk. It IS insurance of a sort. In fact, without insurance, the United States couldn't have been settled.
In fact, why don't you read the short history of insurance at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance#History_of_insurance
You done? Now what was it you said about insurance as socialism?
When you take from those who have and give to those who don't have...that's socialism.
When a 16 year old safe driver has to pay high premiums because of bad 16 year old drivers, he ends up paying for the bad drivers.
Bad drivers love it, because they can turn to all the good drivers for a money when they've run a red light and killed a pedestrian
It's all the good drivers who have to suffer with higher premiums
In a capitalistic company we all pull our own weight. Bad drivers shoulder all the penalites. Godd drivers never file claims and don't have to pay
First, kindly provide the source to your definition on socialism. It doesn't match with mine nor the English Oxford Dictionary.
Then answer these questions:
Questions to Norris
Round 1.
I'm a good driver. I've never been pulled over. Recently, I was stopped at a red light and a drunk driver rear-ended me.
A) Was it my fault?
B) If yes, because I should have known about the "risks," then what alternative options did I have?
Round 2.
My capitalistic "country" (note: not company) does not have a Navy. Recently, we've discovered that other nations are illegally fishing off our coasts and dumping nuclear waste off of our shores.
I must pull my own weight and stand up to this injustice or I will die.
Norris, please provide the optimal and practical response to this situation.
Round 3.
Recently, I was diagnosed with a deadly form of cancer. I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. I used to drink Pepsi, but have not since high school. I work out everyday. I never eat fast food.
I am 25. I am devastated.
I cannot afford to pay a doctor for my expensive treatments. It costs around $2,000 a month. This does not include the expensive diagnostics that are vital to monitor the advancement of my deadly form of cancer.
A) Was it my fault?
B) If yes, because I should have known the risks of "living," then what other options should I have?
Bonus Questions.
C) Do I have the right to kill myself with dignity?
D) Who will take care of my 1 year old child if I die of no fault of my own?
Man, I totally thought Norris's comment was snark, and quite clever at that. I guess I'm just a glass half full kind of guy.
Norris, you know why insurance is capitalism? Because insurance companies exist as a market response to a desire by consumers to pool risk. The value you get for paying an insurance premium is a hedge against catastrophic loss. That guy doesn't get your money just because; he also paid premiums to buy into the risk pool. And I don't know what insurance companies you use, but chronic bad actors get dropped or denied. And plenty of claims are filed by people who are damaged through no fault of their own - hit by uninsured drivers, robbed, assaulted, etc.
You may think you get nothing for your money if nothing ever happens to you, but that's not true - you're buying down risk. That's why insurance policies have market determinable value - because risk can be commodified.
If you don't want to spend your money on this kind of product, then you don't have to. And if there was no market demand, then there would be no insurance companies. That's what capitalism is. Apparently under your definition, a capitalistic insurance company is one where everyone pays premiums and no one ever files claims. Now THAT is what I call redistributing wealth.
Incidentally, as someone noted above, redistribution of wealth is not socialism. Collective ownership of the means of production is socialism.
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