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Racist and Sexist "Geisha" Bar Gets Permit to Operate in Oakland Chinatown

Outrageous news out of Oakland from my good friends and community organzers and the work they're doing up there: Diana Pei Wu, Jenn Pae, Angelica Jongco, Xiaojing Wang, and Jen Mei Wu. [Please note: This is NOT an APA for Progress campaign, like some have mis-portrayed it.]

The Oakland Planning Commission just approved a permit for a bar to open at 316 14th St., pretty much in Chinatown.  Business as usual right? Not when the bar's name is going to be "Geisha," and sells stereotypes and images that perpetuate the violence and silencing of Asian women and girls. 

Word is that the permit request was put in by the bar owners last year.  Despite dialogue and pleas with the owners to change the name of their bar in the past year, Jamal Perry (business owner / applicant) and Unsuk Perry (property owner) - 2 Asian Americans -  continue to push forward.  According to a note from my friend Diana, the local Asian American community agrees,

That the proposed name for the proposed establishment, “Geisha,” plays upon and reinforces racist and sexist stereotypes about Asian women and will significantly impact the quality of civic life in the neighborhood should it remain thus unfortunately named.  Intentionally or not, the use of the word is culturally related to a set of stereotypes of Asian women that is a well-documented social fact that is well-documented in the social sciences, Asian American Studies, ethnic studies and even by popular authors such as Sheridan Prasso.  [We] argue that because of the relationship of the word geisha to negative sexualized and violent stereotypes towards Asian American women, this proposal to create a bar at that location fails to meet Objectives D1, D5, D9 and D12 [of the City of Oakland].

You still think that the image of a geisha (picture above is an ad for a tile company in Europe that got banned by the Advertising Standards Authority) is harmless? Diana's note continues:

The impacts of this stereotype, as documented in the academic and medical literature, and in [testimonials at tonight's hearing], include:

• Sexual harassment. Every day racialized sexual harassment of Asian and Asian American women [APAP commentary: Just a couple years ago, cops were looking for the NorCal Rapist, who targeted Asian women in the Bay area, including in Oakland Chinatown.]
• Mental illness. Other studies have documented for all racial groups that the prevalence of every day racial aggression is related to mental illness, physical and psychological well-being and contributes to stress, anger and depression in its victims (Chakraborty and McKenzie 2002; Kim 2002).
• Discriminatory economic impacts; rise in nonconsensual sex trade and pornography. Similarly, Professor of Asian American Studies Elaine Kim has argued that the stereotype of Asian women as submissive sex objects has impeded Asian women's economic mobility and has fostered increased demand in mail-order brides and ethnic pornography.

What's even more interesting is the dynamics at tonight's hearing. Apparently, the two white male members voted in favor of the permit saying that the name of the bar was not really viokence, which is sadly in my mind not surprising.  However, it is very sad to hear that one African American male member voted in favor of the permit.  Also, a Latina member who said that the name was personally offensive abstained from voting.  Vien Truong is the only Asian American member of the Commission, and voted a resounding NO! 

The final vote was: 4 votes in favor; 1 vote against; 1 abstain; 1 commissioner absent.

Yes Votes (to give Geisha a permit) - contact information provided for anyone wishing to contact these people:

Michael Colbruno
Clear Channel Outdoor
555 12th Street, Suite 950
Oakland, CA 94607
835-5900
Fax: 663-4662
Email: michaelcolbruno@clearchannel.com

C. Blake Huntsman
SEIU, Local 1021
155 Myrtle Street
Oakland, CA 94607
452-2366, ext. 522
Fax: 452-2436
Email: Blake.Huntsman@seiu1021.org

Douglas Boxer
Boxer & Associates, Inc.
300 Frank H. Ogawa Plaza, Suite 500
Oakland, CA 94612
286-2937
Fax: 835-0415
Email: dboxer@gmail.com

Vince Gibbs
City of Oakland
250 Frank H. Ogawa Plaza Ste. 3315
Oakland, CA 94612
(510) 903-9516
Email: VinceGibbs.opc@gmail.com

Abstain

Sandra Galvez
Bay Area Regional Health Inequities Initiative;
Partnership for the Public's Health
180 Grand Ave, Suite 750
Oakland, CA 94612
(510) 302-3369
Fax: (510) 451-8606
Email: sgalvez@phi.org

HELL NO!

Vien Truong
City of Oakland
250 Frank H. Ogawa Plaza Ste. 3315
Oakland, CA 94612
(510) 967-7783
Email: VienV.Truong@gmail.com

Absent

Madeleine Zayas-Mart
WRT/Solomon E.T.C.
1328 Mission Street, 4th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94103
(Cell) 282-7287
Fax: 601-8858
Email: mzayasmart@sf.wrtdesign.com

I think most of us can agree with Diana, who is a resident and community activist in Oakland, when she says:

Most of us want good business establishments in our neighborhood. We just don't think that it should be on the backs, hearts, minds and mental health of the women and girls that we work with, defend, counsel, represent, teach, etc.  [Businesses] shouldn't contribute to the atmoshere of sanctioned violence against women of color.

Update (10/8/09)

And... if you want to read Dr. Diana Pei Wu's full analysis (which I excerpted above)... here you go:

MEMO

From: Diana Pei Wu, PhD
Faculty Lecturer, Ethnic Studies, UC Berkeley
Visiting Faculty Fellow, Amherst College, 2009-2010

To: Oakland Planning Commissioners

Date: October 7, 2009

Re: Oakland Planning Commission Case File CM 09-163


Dear Planning Commissioners,

I am a resident in downtown Oakland and a professor of Ethnic Studies at UC Berkeley. Prior to that work, I also worked as the Director of Community Planning at Asian Neighborhood Design in San Francisco and have worked as a researcher on community development, environmental and housing issues for both Urban Strategies Council and Pacific Institute. I have been up here before multiple times, on issues as diverse as community benefits, affordable housing, Oakland arts and cultural funding and youth programs. I tell you this to illustrate my long-term commitment to the well-being of all Oaklanders and that is why I am standing before you tonight: because I love this town and it is my home.

I am writing with respect to the Permit regarding Case Number CM09-163 (APN 008-0625-047-00) that will be coming before you tonight (Wednesday, 10/7/09), a permit to open a bar at 316 14th Street.

We in the neighborhood have dubbed it the "unfortunately named" bar on 14th St.

Through extended discussion, we agree that the proposed name for the proposed establishment, “Geisha,” plays upon and reinforces racist and sexist stereotypes about Asian women and will significantly impact the quality of civic life in the neighborhood should it remain thus unfortunately named.

Intentionally or not, the use of the word is culturally related to a set of stereotypes of Asian women that is a well-documented social fact: in the social sciences, Asian American Studies, ethnic studies and even by popular authors such as Sheridan Prasso.

I, and we, argue that because of the relationship of the word geisha to negative sexualized and violent stereotypes towards Asian American women, this proposal to create a bar at that location fails to meet Objectives D1, D5, D9 and D12.

History of a stereotype

The impression that all Asian women were prostitutes, born at that time (the late 1800s and early 1900s), colored the public perception of, attitude toward, and action against all Chinese women for almost a century," writes historian Sucheng Chan (cf. Shah 1997).

As Asian American scholar Gary Okihiro notes, Western stereotypes of Asian women are related to the West’s geopolitical relationship with Asia – in particular a desire of the West to take possession, work over, and penetrate of Asia (cf. Shah 1997).

Whether intentional or not, the image and stereotype of the geisha, like that of lotus blossom, china doll, and the dragon lady, are a product of, and reinforce those cultural meanings that pervade our society. Staci Ford of the University of Hong Kong concluded that stereotypical depictions of women in general created by sexist white men continue to haunt movies – and culture - though they now have a disguised form. This is the origin and role of the geisha stereotype in our society.

The prevalence and reality of the geisha stereotype

A recent study conducted by Derald Wing Sue et al (2007) from the Teachers College at Columbia University identified 8 major types of microaggressions commonly experienced by Asian Americans. Of the 8, 2 are relevant to the issue at hand today.

According to Wing Sue et al, microaggressions are brief, everyday exchanges that send denigrating messages to people of color because they belong to a racial – and this case, racial and sex-based – minority group. These exchanges are so pervasive and automatic in daily interactions that they are often dismissed and glossed over as being innocuous.

First is the exotification of Asian women, where Asian and Asian American women are perceived as being available for sexual favors for men. As Jessica Tan and Jen-Mei Wu’s testimonials also concur, these incidents are not isolated to academic books and journals and social justice circles, but a salient feature of Asian American women’s lives in Oakland, in downtown, in the United States every day. I would hope and expect that the Oakland in which I live, work, love and play would absolutely reject any role in allowing this stereotype to live or become in any way a feature of the physical or psychological landscape of this city.

Second was the widespread denial of Asian Americans racial realities. This included messages being conveyed that Asians are not an ethnic minority group, experience little or no discrimination, and that their racial concerns are unimportant. In this case, the group’s prior attempted exchanges with Perry were met with absolute denial that our concerns about the name of the bar-restaurant-lounge could possibly be reinforcing a racist and sexist stereotype, nor even that geisha itself was a racist and sexist stereotype in the US and Western context. Denial of this issue and its impacts on the physical and mental health of Asian Americans would constitute an example of this type of violence.

According to Wing Sue et al, microaggressions are brief, everyday exchanges that send denigrating messages to people of color because they belong to a racial – and this case, racial and sex-based – minority group. These exchanges are so pervasive and automatic in daily interactions that they are often dismissed and glossed over as being innocuous.

The study also “provides strong support that microaggressions are not minimally harmful and possess detrimental consequences for the recipients.”

Impacts of the stereotype

The impacts of this stereotype, as documented in the academic and medical literature, and in today’s testimonials, include:

• Sexual harassment. Every day racialized sexual harassment of Asian and Asian American women
• Mental illness. Other studies have documented for all racial groups that the prevalence of every day racial aggression is related to mental illness, physical and psychological well-being and contributes to stress, anger and depression in its victims (Chakraborty and McKenzie 2002; Kim 2002).
• Discriminatory economic impacts; rise in nonconsensual sex trade and pornography. Similarly, Professor of Asian American Studies Elaine Kim has argued that the stereotype of Asian women as submissive sex objects has impeded Asian women's economic mobility and has fostered increased demand in mail-order brides and ethnic pornography. Recently an ad was banned in the UK because of the association between a woman dressed in geisha-suggestive clothing and makeup and implied violent sexual acts (enclosed).

I sincerely hope that the Oakland Planning Commission understands the impacts of this stereotype and will not deny its existence in today’s society.

I, and we, argue that because of the relationship of the word geisha to negative sexualized and violent stereotypes towards Asian American women, this proposal to create a bar at that location fails to meet Objectives D1, D5, D9 and D12.

Specifically,

Identity: does the Oakland City Planning Commission wish to enhance the identity of downtown Oakland’s Commercial business District by promoting an image of sexualized, racialized violence against women as part of the CBD and General Plan?

Safety and perception of safety: As multiple testimonials and research shows, the stereotype of geisha contributes to a lifelong experience of sexual harassment and violence against Asian and Asian American women and young girls. Allowing the name will constitute violence against these women and contribute to perpetuating and reinforcing a culture of violence against women ad girls.

Serving the needs of downtown workers and residents. We are here as downtown workers and residents for whom the operation of this establishment as proposed will absolutely go contrary to our needs for the safe, welcoming and diverse spaces we want and need for the Oakland that we are helping to build.

Making downtown Oakland a regional destination for innovative learning, cultural resources, art and entertainment. I would love for this venue to become that. With a name such as the geisha bar, it is drawing on tired old stereotypes and will not serve a need of a large segment of the population. What is he message that the planning Commission would be sending to the 1/3 to 1/4 of the population that is of Asian descent in Oakland, the young girls and boys who are growing up here, the children we are raising?

I hope you recognize the clear and well-documented psychological violence that the name of this bar would contribute to and perpetuate against Asian and Asian American women, as well as all women, people of good conscience, and people committed to peace and justice, in the City of Oakland. This is not the Oakland we want to create.

Please do not allow this bar-restaurant-lounge to go forward with its current name – or any other unacceptable stereotype that perpetuates violence against Oakland’s diverse residents. Thank you.

Respectfully submitted,
Diana Pei Wu, PhD

Faculty Lecturer, Comparative Ethnic Studies, University of California, Berkeley
(Visiting Faculty Fellow in Global Sustainability, Amherst College, 2009-2010)

Selected Bibliography

Chakraborty, A., & McKenzie, K. (2002). Does racial discrimination cause mental illness? British Journal of Psychiatry, 180, 475– 477.

Ford, Staci. "Portrayal of Genders and Generation, East and West: Suzie Wong in the Noble House" (http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo/view/35/3500494.pdf. Retrieved 2006-06-25)

Guillaumin, Colette. 1995. Racism, sexism, power, and ideology. London ; New York : Routledge.

Kim, Elaine (1984). "Asian American writers: A bibliographical review". American Studies International 22 (2): 41–78..

Kim, J. G. S. (2002). Racial perceptions and psychological well being in Asian and Hispanic Americans. Dissertation Abstracts International, 63(2-B), 1033B.

Makhijani, Pooja (Ed.). 2004. Under Her Skin: How Girls Experience Race in America. Seal Press.

Na, Vickie (Ed.). 2000. Yell-Oh Girls!: Emerging Voices Explore Culture, Identity, and Growing Up Asian American. New York: Quill Press.

Prasso, Sheridan. 2005. The Asian Mystique: Dragon ladies, Geisha Girls and Our Fantasies of the Exotic Orient. New York: PublicAffairs.

Shah, Sonia. 1997. "Women and Gender Issues" Asian-Nation: The Landscape of Asian America. <http://www.asian-nation.org/gender.shtml> (October 7, 2009).

Shimizu, Celine. 2007. The Hypersexuality of Race: Performing Asian/American Women on Screen and Scene. Duke University Press.

Tajima, R. (1989). Lotus blossoms don't bleed: Images of Asian women., Asian Women United of California's Making waves: An anthology of writings by and about Asian American women, (pp 308-317), Beacon Press

Toyama, Nikki A., Tracey Gee, Kathy Khang, Christie Heller de Leon, and Asifa Dean (Eds.). 2005. More Than Serving Tea: Asian American Women on Expectations, Relationships, Leadership and Faith. IVP Books.

Wing Sue, Derald, Jennifer Bucceri, Annie I. Lin, Kevin L. Nadal, and Gina C. Torino. 2007. “Racial Microaggressions and the Asian American Experience.” Cultural Diversity and Ethnic Minority Psychology 13 (1), 72– 81.

And here's Diana's take on how things went down last night at the Commission hearing.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

Calvin Prashad on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 07:27

Aside from the offensive name, is there any word on theme, clientle or services provided by this establishment?  It seems absent in all this discussion.

(though that is not to say that naming a bar after a historical stereotype isn't wrong on its own.)

Amazing (not verified) on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 11:18

It's not like they are calling the bar Chinks. While I agree Geisha MAY be offensive to some it's only offensive if one takes a VERY narow view of the definition. Geishas are simply people (who included men AND women) who entertain the audience through song and dance. A Narrow definition is that Asian women (only) entertain men (alludingsexual contact).

FACT: Geishas were men AND women throughout history (it's simply, and incorrectly, understood that they are ALL women) and the audiences were a mix of men AND women.

Let's not become a Nanny State. If Asian Americans contnue to cry racism when none exists we'll be no better than the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons - crying wolf when there is no wolf and truly trivilzing real racism and discrimination faced by our communities.

rameyko on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 11:46

I dont know where you're getting your Japanese history, but true geisha were never men.  There is some historical evidence that the institution of geisha evolved out of performers who included men, but in their most well-understood form, geisha have been exclusively female.  They also rarely entertained "audiences" - geishas are and were a highly private and exclusive form of entertainment available only to the elite.  The extent of an "audience" would be perhaps four or five patrons at most.

And yes, true geishas are not and never have been prostitutes.  The nature of the institution and the relationship between geishas and patrons are highly complex and little understood outside a very narrow segment of Japanese society, but the true and correct usage of the term is not at issue here.  What matters is the perception of the average observer likely to come into contact with the bar, and it's no controversy that in the West, geishas have long been viewed, however incorrectly, as prostitutes and symbolic of the stereotype of Asian female sex workers.  For example, "geisha girl" has been the common slang term for prostitute among American military stationed in Japan since WWII.

Moreover, the prostitution element is not the only problematic aspect of the geisha image.  Many contemporary Japanese find the institution outdated and offensive not because of assumptions about prostitution, but because it stems out of a culture of women serving and entertaining men.  You don't need sex to recognize that even in the most favorable light, geishas represent patriarchy.

rameyko on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 12:36

I should add that while I disagree on policy and ethical grounds with the naming of the bar, it might be unconstitutional for the Planning Commission to deny a permit based on the name.

Whether or not the bar would have First Amendment protections depends on exactly what the permit was for, and how other businesses are treated in the same process.

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 19:46

Get over yourselves, ladies.  You only prove that intolerance is alive and well in the Asian-Am community.  For all your education and street "cred" you sure can't roll with life's little ups-and-downs very well.  I mean, back the truck up, will you? Lighten up, get a grip, relax, chill, deep breathing.  We will survive.  The planning commission can't tell people what to name their businesses and frankly you don't want them to have this power.  You went to the meeting and had your say and lost it happens all time.  Take your lumps and learn like everyone else has to.  it was funny to watch your group talk like you all expected the commissioners and everybody to change their minds just cuz you said so.  how naive and arrogant.  Its a public process and a big world.  No body was saying anything sexual or stereotyping any one until you all showed up with your psychobabble over the name of a business - how utterly petty.  im sure i could find alots of names i don't like either.  How arrogant and full of yourselves you all are.  in a multicultural and multiracial society everybody is sterotyping everyone else all the time.  noboby gets more or less of it, it happens all the time and you know it but you think if it happens to you it is a great injury like your pain hurts more than anyone else, like your pain is special and more important and should get more attention and those who cause your little pain desire ever bit of your judgement and condemnation.  Balony!

Anon coward, so what?

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Thu, 10/08/2009 - 22:25

Geisha bar is not in Oakland Chinatown.  316-14th Street in downtown Oakland is not in Oakland Chinatown.  It is on the 14th Street corridor and part of the main business area and quite close to Lake Merritt, but is not in Chinatown.  8th, 9th, 10th Streets and Webster/Franklin Streets are in Chinatown.  This location is not in Chinatown.

jenn on Mon, 10/12/2009 - 14:32

I should add that while I disagree on policy and ethical grounds with the naming of the bar, it might be unconstitutional for the Planning Commission to deny a permit based on the name.

Whether or not the bar would have First Amendment protections depends on exactly what the permit was for, and how other businesses are treated in the same process.

I agree with Ramey that there may have been legal problems with denying a permit based solely on the name, but we also aren't sure that it was the legal issues that motivated the council representatives to vote in favour of granting the permit.

I think that the offensiveness of this restaurant should be resolved with grassroots and community pressure -- protest the restaurant and organize a boycott. Speak to the restaurant owners about how negativity publicity against the establishment will continue to mount, and how the local community will not tolerate the stereotype referenced by the name. I think the bad press that the restaurant has gotten in the blogosphere so far will do a lot towards encouraging discussion between community leaders and the restaurant owners towards changing the name.

rameyko on Mon, 10/12/2009 - 14:40

I'm going to give the commenter above the benefit of the doubt and assume she was just being cheeky, but it's important to emphasize nonetheless that violent or illegal activity is an unacceptable response.  We can be strong, steadfast, passionate, and even pains in the a**, but we should never stoop to violence.

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 13:38

It's also "unconsitutional" for a man and woman to marry. Just sayin' ya'll! There's a difference between something being unconstitutional and just outright insensitive, immoral, and a detriment to society.

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 13:40

Oops. I mean a man and a man to marry.

rameyko on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 14:16

I think you mean the Constitution hasn't been interpreted to protect the right of two people of the same sex to marry.  That's not the same thing as being unconstitutional - that would mean same-sex marriage violates the Constitution, which would also mean states wouldn't be allowed to pass laws enabling same-sex marriage.  It also doesn't mean that same-sex marriage couldn't be reocgnized as constitutionally protected some day.

The constitutional issue with the Planning Commission is a little different.  Denying a permit because of the name of the organization would be a potential content-based restriction of speech, which would violate the First Amendment.  Just because a name is objectionable or even offensive, doesn't mean the government can regulate it.

However, the constitutional question is merely one of limits and minimum requirements.  It doesn't obviously speak to the morality or policy implications of the bar's name.  I don't think you actually disagree with Jenn and me; all of us are in agreement that the question of something's constitutionality and its merit are different.

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 14:44

Yes! Well articulated.

jenn on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 14:48

Ramey beat me to it! I was just going to write:

unconstitutional ≠ not in the constitution

jneil (not verified) on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 13:05

Perhaps you should expand your protest to Geisha House in Hollywood, CA?  They have been open for years, with absolutely no issue.

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Sun, 10/18/2009 - 13:49

As a non-Asian-American, "geisha" to me simply means "a woman who serves drinks and provides polite company". Will the presence of the bar suddenly force me to look differently at my Asian-American women friends? Will I suddenly start looking at them as whores, despite knowing them for 15+ years? I didn't know that the name of a bar could have such a profound effect on people!!

But seriously. People need to stop crying wolf on such trivial things, otherwise when the realy sh!t goes down (like the Lousiana nut who refused to perform an interracial marriage), people will just ignore you.

steph (not verified) on Tue, 11/17/2009 - 11:37

i can't believe people do not think this is a real and important issue. i am an asian american female, and all my life i have had to deal with sexual harrassment because of my race. when i was 13, i was walking down the street in fruitvale and a man came up to me, asked me for sexual favors, said he would pay me for it, followed me to the store i was going to, and continued to ask me questions about "whether i had hair down there, and is it as dark and thick as the hair on my head." it was one of the worst things i've had to go through and every time a man comes up to me i geet scared all over again. even now, everyday, people make racial remarks at me, like i'm some exotic sexual figure who just got off the boat from china. and i KNOW they see me as a submissive, quiet asian girl who won't say anything back at them, and because of that, i don't.

i can imagine people walking pass this bar, laughing about it, then seeing another asian teenage female and harrassing her about her dark hair, her slanty eyes. and it's true, those small remarks made by men in passing have a huge impact. i don't know if the planning commission can do anything about this issue, but regardless i feel like the business owners should realize that this is bringing up a lot of issues and pain for asian american women and have some sympathy. seriously? you can't think of a different name for your bar? seriously??

Anonymous Coward (not verified) on Sat, 11/21/2009 - 00:19

10:18 proves the point.  A geisha isn't a woman who serves drinks.  He or she is thinking about a "hostess bar", which is a completely different thing.

As I learned it (I'm Japanese American with a mom from Japan) a geisha does dancing (odori), plays the shamisen and sings, and maybe knows the tea ceremony.  They also wear white makeup.  That's about all I learned.  No prostitution was involved.

In fact, i did hear a little bit about whores in Japan, but, they weren't called geisha.  (I don't remember the term.)

Also, I remember some boys asking if I knew about "geeshas".  I'd say something like "geisha?  yah I know about them." and i didn't have a clue what they were talking about.  i just thought they were talking about geisha -- the white faced shamisen players!

So, there was some mutual ignorance back then, and that ignorance clearly persists today.  A quick perusal of the Geisha House restaurant's website proves it.  The theme is a "high class Asian brothel".  What the fukc?  they even mention the kama sutra.  LOLz.  Ignorant.

The geisha system seems sexist.  It seems to align with prostitution, and also with hostess bars.  One gender entertains, and the other purchases the entertainment.  It's like ritual sexism or something.

Ps - has anyone protested the "Buddha Bar"?  That's some more bullshit.  The Buddha didn't want people to drink.  If he were a magician like Christ, he would have turned wine into water.  LOLz.

Taipei Girl (not verified) on Wed, 12/30/2009 - 19:35

So, what if someone named a grocery store using the name Geisha? Would everyone go crazy then?

Why is is that when I come to America everyone is going crazy about issues like this. You guys are to crazy!
Using this word will NOT add to or take away the amount of violance against women. Put away the PhD and take some air out of your ego.

"steph" your experience happens everyday in Japan and even in my home in Taiwan, some men are just sick... why do you turn everything into a racial issue? I see many 2nd and 3rd generation that are going to crazy on this.  

"rameyko" - you are wrong, wrong  the Geisha where also men... get a book spend a few months traveling around japan.

I think a lot of Asian American are infact are promoting the sterotypes themselves.

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